The following dialogue between Jian Wei and myself was a very interesting one over sms (yes, sms) given my very mundane mounting. I have nothing better to do than to post this for remembrance and novelty.
Anyway watching this may help understand some context in this debate.
Me: Btw, there is some theory that could possibly refute moral relativism…and this includes the presence of mirror neurons.
Jian Wei (JW): But even if we all have mirror neurons, that doesn’t mean that the neurons will give us all the same degree of moral feel. Just like how we all have pain receptors but people have varying degrees of pain tolerance. I suspect the mere presence of mirror neurons alone do not determine our sense of morality. So there might still be hope for moral relativism.
Me: I’m not saying that the essence of relativism is blanketed out on such grounds. At least it allows a glimmer of possibility that there are universal truths that shouldn’t be bound by custom.. I.e. Killing the innocents are wrong. Albeit imposing judgments on customs is a different story as it reek of moral imperialism like the colonials in the past.
While people cannot experience the same degree of emphatic ability, the basic idea is that there is the perception of polarities.
JW: Hmm, even if our mirror neurons tell us something is wrong, does that really make it wrong?
Me: The essential point is that it underwrites the ability to recognize what pleases or distresses others, what helps or harms them based upon deduction, a conclusion reached by tests all around the world. This means that the ultimate basis of moral judgment is hardwired and most likely universal, anomalies aside. This means that fundamental morality on human life is similar, despite customs.
–Heh, and then we experimented another intellectual discourse by shifting sides (or perhaps degree in the relativism-universalism continuum) –
Me: But my philosophical standing is one that agrees more with moral relativism though. I am just inspiring debate out of boredom….Sigh NS life =/
JW: I think I’m half-half. I feel that everybody’s opinion vary to varying extents for each of the many moral questions we face. There are consensus, but there are somehow deep disagreement for some.
Me: But your whole argument take the side of moral relativist, since it is precisely the view that there are no right and wrong, but rather what counts as such in each different society as determined by their paradigm.
Btw, watch the graphic lecture ‘The emphatic civilisation’ on youtube!!
JW: I was arguing that mirror neurons alone may not determine our sense of morality. Perhaps for some issues the neurons give us the same feelings, hence moral consensus and perhaps sometimes our neurons give different polarities of feelings to different people, hence moral disagreement. I was really just disputing the role of mirror neurons and the assertion that having them allows us to reach the same moral conclusions. Moreover, moral dilemmas can confuse our mirror neurons, making it highly difficult to feel a ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ out of them. Couple with the possible variations of moral sense that mirror neurons give to different people, we can reach different conclusions. But for simple moral questions like whether we should murder for fun, I think there’s almost animity for those.
But I don’t subscribe to pure relativism or universalism. I think the answer lies in between. Oh yes, I’m gonna eat dinner now; sorry if i don’t reply swiftly in the next half hour.
Me: Haha, But yours seems to inclines towards relativism on the basis of having no universal moral truths with a refinement made being that there are some fundamental moral claims that could be conclusive upon consensus. Just a clarification though, mirror neurons activates an emphatic experience and whether it feel its right or wrong is based upon rational judgement. Which is suggested in the term “mirror” – to reflect the same qualities (of experience). I think whether or not moral dilemmas confuse mirror neurons is tangential at this juncture.
In fact, while I am tempted to take your standing, i remain a traditional relativist (wow a new term) due to the fact that your standing gives more entitlement to moralise others while mine allows for communal morals to be protected by external axioms.
JW: I don’t believe in the idea of moral truths that exist independently of human beings (i.e. if there are no human beings around, I don’t think there can be such a thing as morality.) But I believe that there can be some universal moral claims that are widely shared, and which are as much of a truth as medical knowledge (which, similarly cannot exist independently of humans). Anyway, the idea that our mirror neurons might differ in moral opinions is a possible explanation, albeit a speculative one; for why we might differ in moral opinions even with mirror neurons (much like how we can get distracted from a feeling whereas some don’t even when we share the same sensory neurons). So its not simply tangential; its crucial.
But I concede that independent moral truths can exist in the indirect sense that even without human beings, the laws of nature dictate if there are to be creatures that are just humans, with mirror neurons, they will share some universal moral views.
Me: I can concede to the inconclusive yet plausible link between varied sensory thresholds thereby differ moral perception. But I didn’t say that morality exists independently of humans; rather I would not like to allow others to impose their moral reasoning in my life against my own.
This is the problem of a moral universal claim. It is based upon collective axioms and should not be dealt on the same standards as scientific facts which is bound to falsification by scientific hypothetical investigation and processes. Thereby truth of medical knowledge has to be dealt in another realm.
JW: Hmm, ok fair enough on that point.
Me: Haha, yeah so wassup in your life…[...]
YES, upon hindsight, this is a very weird and long-winded conversational starter that tries to ease into a conversation about our daily affairs =/
Imagine the bills I accumulated just for this over SMS.
